Check out Joe Perez's article in the Norwich Bulletin..
re: the Giants' stay in Norwich. Joe lays it out there pretty well. Good article and backs up what been said in here: please leave. Norwich Bulletin link is on the right.
posted by greg8370 at 12:07 AM
10 Comments:
All I have to say is wow. Wow because that was a very information stretched article in many aspects. I don't care if Joe reads this comment. Nobody is notice since we got Charlie Dowd, and new coaches the increase in playing, attendance. But whatever, people I guess will "cheer" when they get the same playing by different people, organizations and teams.
3:12 PM
greg,
first let me say, i have loved your blog since the day i first found it...i think it may be one of the better blogs covering a local milb team, cuz it is done as a true labor of love...and now that i have the ass kissing out of the way, allow me to say this.
joe is right and wrong.
1) sabean's neglect of the farm system....hey, dodd aint the only stadium the guy never visited...for a gm, that guy barely traveled, and being a good will ambassador to the different milb clubs should be part of a gm's duties....a twice a year trip to each park cant be that hard. the guy didnt show up to fresno till last year. and fresno is a whole 2 hour drive from sf. but bitchin about sabean gets you nowhere, we have done it for years, and hes still here.
2. I believe that the giants did initially offer to kick in something for the fences being moved...had it been done when requested. I could be wrong.
3. Joe neglects to note the player's and teams splits for the past few years, which do show the defenders hitting much better on the road than at home.
4. Joe neglects to note the players splits from a to aa to aaa
5. Why doesnt Joe mention Nate? is that because nate is proof that something really wierd goes on when a player hits dodd?
6. He talks about Bowker, but doesnt note that although John got the hr team record last season, that was only good for i believe 10th in the league.
7. He is wrong about the history of sending top prospects....this did not occur till this season...almost the entire championship team from sj was sent to ct. where their bats died. nate, kfran, bowker, ort, etc, all played for ct. lincecum skipped ct....there really was no reason to send him to a pitchers league. does john really think that burriss and bocock would benefit from playing in the east?
8.going back to point 7, john notes that the org has been bereft of quality minor league talent...so why is he bitchin about the best not being sent over? the best of crap is still crap
9. john neglects to note that until this season, april was famous for its excessive number of rainouts (and sometimes snowouts)...guys sitting around a clubhouse, or at motel 6 does not for good development make
i believe that the fans in norwich do want a team to root for. i believe that they will support an milb franchise. i also believe that the eastern league has not been all that great in terms of player development for the giants, for a myriad of reasons.
and yes virginia, there will be baseball at dodd next season...but the giants wont be the affiliate
so heres hoping you guys get a great team, and we both are rid of the great and powerful sabean
9:34 PM
There is still a part of me that feels that the Giants won't pull out because of the obvious improvements throughout the past two years, player wise and stadium wise.
9:53 PM
vonschell...
i know you are a giants fan...but the realities of the game and biz all point to the org dissolving the partnership at the end of this season...but have no fear...the internets will allow you to follow all the milb and big league club
12:28 AM
Yeah I'm a Giants fan. And I have hope. You all want them to leave. but your a small population. What is the likes of them pulling out. Where are they going to go? Seriously. It doesn't matter if I'm a fan or not. There are plenty of facts behind it that support that they may still stay. And I will laugh if they do stay and all these people are writing these news paper articles about how bad they are and poof, hello, were still here and ticking till 2012.
6:34 AM
Bacci,
On your points....
2. The Giants never offered any monies for the fences.
3. So what if the Defenders hit better away from Dodd? Why do other teams hit better at Dodd than the Defenders? People need to stop treating Dodd like the excuse for failure. Teams have won in that park, so to hear Giants minor leaguers complain is nonsense.
If these player splits are so important, than why were the Yankees able to hit at Dodd Stadium? Because they had hitters and not a bunch of guys who spend more time complaining about hitting.
4. Splits don't mater. If that's the case, every time someone hits .210 for Connecticut, you should say, "Well, they hit 70 points higher in San Jose."
What a player did in the past doesn't mean that those numbers are an indication of who they are. Maybe they aren't good enough to play at Double A.
5. I didn't mention Nate because the players I used as examples spent most or all of this year in the majors. Nate has not.
6. That Bowker set a team HR record or that it was 10 (like that's bad) only proves my point about the ability for hitters to succeed while playing at Dodd.
7. With the exception of Fransden, none of the guys you mention, Nate, Bowker, etc., were considered top prospects. The Giants never believed Bowker would do much until he surprised everyone last year.
The point I made with Bocock and Burriss is that the Giants intentionally skip players over Double A just to keep them out of Norwich. Lincecum was the only player who was ready to skip Double A.
8. When an organization sucks and has a limited number of players who are considered prospects and they don't send them, that's reason to bitch.
9. Welcome to the Eastern League. There are 11 other teams and they have the same weather as the Defenders and there's no complaining. This is exactly the problem here: excuse after excuse for why they fail, but there's no accountability. It's everyone and everything else that led them to struggle.
Bien Figueroa goes on and on about the weather this and the weather that. What happens in July when they lose seven of 10? Is it too hot to hit then?
6:36 AM
Bacci,
I won't bother to reply to your issues item by item, because the author of the article has already done so, and much better then I would have. But I will add a few thoughts to a couple of the topics.
1. Regarding Nate, he had a decent year here, albeit a lot of the good came late. But if he's really that hot a property, why isn't he up with the Giants instead of Ortmeir or Bowker? I do believe that Nate has some flaws which the Giants are not willing to overlook and I think his star has dimmed a bit.
2. I don't understand your comment on Bowker at all. Because he didn't lead the league, it's the parks fault! Perhaps what we saw last year was the best that can be expected. Hell, he isn't exactly knocking the the cover off the ball this year in SF or Fresno, is he?
3. When are you guys going to face the facts and realize that the Giants position players who have come through the system aren't very good. Screw the stats and the splits, screw all that crap, there is no one here or in Fresno or with the Giants that you can look at and say he's going to be a stud for the next ten years.
4. And if this ballpark has been such a deterrent, how come Fresno hasn't done anything? The whole issue is developing players and winning and none of the Giants upper level farm teams have realized much success.
I like your posts Bacci, because if nothing else, they are refreshing, but I'm fed up with Dodd being everyone's culprit, yours included, especially when you've never been to the park.
10:28 AM
i know most of you guys dont care or dont wish to follow the machinations of the giants or their farm system, but some of the things you have posted are just total fabrication.
1) nate was/is and hopefully will soon no longer be a top prospect in the giants system. while he was at norwich, he was heavily scouted and his name was frequently dropped in any trade talks. he was sent to the afl after his year at sj, because he is a top prospect....why wasnt he brought up? first, he had a slight injury early in the year, and that his why timpner came up. why isnt he up instead of ort or bowker? cuz the giants are fucking idiots...i have already stated that....nate is a corner of...but despite the fact that this should be a rebuilding year, they insist on holding onto winn....go take a look at the giants main site...on monday, nate hit for the cycle...2 days later there is an article on the main site explaining to all why nate hasnt been called up...he should be in the mlb, but i am a fan of the most retarded org in the majors. and like i said in my original post, most of the blame for the quality of player going to dodd (and fresno) rests on the shoulders of the king of retards, brian sabean
2)the splits...although it may not seem to be true, visiting teams hit worse at dodd than at any other park in the eastern...you can look it up. comeon guys, how many 1-0, 2-1 games do you need to see before you realize that fact? but dont take my word for it...there are guys on mac chron and other sites that have checked into the statitical anomaly that is dodd...and i have heard from players, that the place plays like a wind tunnel
3) the league splits...every player has a ceiling...i know that...i know that because over the past 10 years, the giants have had the greatest aaaa players to ever play the game...these guys raked at every level...then they came to the majors and sucked ass....however when you see guys like nate and lewis, who had a very hard time hitting anything at dodd, let alone hit for power, raking in the pcl and then up in the majors...something is wierd.
3) bowker...he set the team record for hrs....but he didnt lead the league...the team record was 22 hrs...that is friggin embarressing....you dont understand why? if the most hrs a team has hit in its many years of existance is 21, than it is damn hard to hit anything out of the park
4) the only year the giants have chosen to skip players from a to aaa is this one....prior to this, they progressed normally. trust me, i know sabean....and its not just cuz he sees dodd as a pitchers park...he is pissed at the org for not reconfiguring the park...and im sorry if i mistated that the giants had offered to assist in the reconfiguration...
like i said, i think the fans in norwich are great and deserve a good minor league club....i just dont think the giants and the eastern league are a good match
12:01 AM
bacci...Shane Spencer hit 29 HRs in 126 games in '96. The "21 homers" may be a post Yankees i.e. Giants record.
11:21 AM
greg,
i stand corrected...thx
3:47 PM
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